{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/d50ft8gm4x/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Charlie Walter"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/713/original/aviary_default_logo.png?1751992923","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eWalter, Charlie. Interview by Christina Hardman. \u003cem\u003ePaluxysaurus jonesi\u003c/em\u003e. June 10, 2025. Paleontological Oral History Program/Fort Worth Museum of Science and History. Fort Worth, Texas.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Duration"]},"value":{"en":["00:46:42"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Fort Worth Museum of Science and History"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Charlie Walter (Interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2025-06-10 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eDirector of Baylor University's Mayborn Museum. Walter recounts his 25-year career working at the Fort Worth Museum of Science and History, where he was involved in various dinosaur-related projects and initiatives. He discusses the discovery of the Paluxysaurus jonesi, and the museum's partnership with SMU researchers to excavate, study, and display the fossils. Walter also describes the museum's efforts to have Paluxysaurus jonesi designated as the official Texas state dinosaur.\u003c/p\u003e (abstract)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["MP4"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["FWMSHPOHCW001 (other)"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eDirector of Baylor University's Mayborn Museum. Walter recounts his 25-year career working at the Fort Worth Museum of Science and History, where he was involved in various dinosaur-related projects and initiatives. He discusses the discovery of the Paluxysaurus jonesi, and the museum's partnership with SMU researchers to excavate, study, and display the fossils. Walter also describes the museum's efforts to have Paluxysaurus jonesi designated as the official Texas state dinosaur.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"provider":[{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Fort Worth Museum of Science and History"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Fort Worth Museum of Science and History"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/713/original/aviary_default_logo.png?1751992923","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/304/657/small/data?1773424237","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - FWMSH Paleontological Oral History Program: Charlie Walter"]},"duration":2802.0,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/304/657/small/data?1773424237","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99LbpCXbkCs","type":"Video","format":"video/youtube","duration":2802.0,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Charlie Walter [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"AVIARY TRANSCRIPT\r\n\r\nTRANSCRIPTION BEGINS","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=0.0,0.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Introduction: Fort Worth Museum of Science and History. An Interview with Charlie Walter, June 10, 2025. Paleontological Oral History Program","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=0.0,8.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Charlie Walter: Hi, Charlie Walter. And I currently live in Whitney, Texas. I'm the director of Baylor University's Mayborn Museum. I had the opportunity to work here in Fort Worth for 25 years and did a lot of great work with a great group of people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=8.0,24.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Interviewer: Can you talk more about your time at the museum?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=24.0,32.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Charlie Walter: You know, I started back in, I think it was 1986 or '87. My first job here was as Visitor Service Manager, and I ran the box office and the ushers and getting people in and out of the Omni Theater. Back in the heyday, it was the only IMAX theater in the whole state of Texas, so we were just swamped, and it was a great...it was just a great experience, just getting people into and out. But a big part of that job as Visitor Service Manager was how is the IMAX and all the things it does related to the rest of the museum and everything we do. So, I was able to bridge a lot of that. So, I worked my way up. Ended up being, I think my first position after being a manager was Associate Director of Interpretation and then changed to a vice president position. I was interim director when Don Otto left, and then Chief Operating Officer when Van Romans came. And I think when I left, I was Senior Vice President of the Programs or something like that. But anyway, 25 years, lots of great opportunities and did a lot of great work here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=32.0,97.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Interviewer: How did you first learn of the Paluxysaurus excavation project?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=97.0,3695.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Charlie Walter: Yeah, you know, it goes back to the Doss Tenontosaur. You know, a young boy walked in the place and had this fossil skull, and Jim Diffily called SMU. We've always been very clear that we're more about teaching and learning than research, but Jim knew very quickly how important this find was. The museum had been in existence 60 or 70 years by that time. No dinosaur had ever walked in the door in those first 60, 70 years. So, Jim called over to SMU, because he knew they had a great paleontology group there, and that started a 20–25-year relationship with SMU kind of working together. It just so happened that once Tenontosaur came out and it was a great project that somebody said, \"Oh, I've got a dinosaur on my property come excavate it.\" And it was the Acrocanthosaurus on the Hobson Ranch. And then it seemed like every couple years something was coming out of the woodwork, and then Louis Jacobs called one day and said, \"We need to go down to the Jones Ranch. It's a site where Pleurocoelus,\" (that at the time was called Pleurocoelus) \"was found, but nobody's worked the site for a while. And I was able to introduce myself to a landowner, and he said, yeah, I'd be interested in having an excavation.\" So, I remember Jim Diffily, myself, Don Otto, went down to Louis Jacobs and Dale Winkler. I don't remember if anybody else was there at that time, but you walk on the site of Pleurocoelus and literally you can just see where there was a dinosaur bone, but it had weathered away and it left an imprint in the limestone there. So, you can tell right away that there were fossils that, you know, exposed as well, but not a whole lot. But after looking at that and talking to Bill Jones and Decie Jones, they're just very gracious people, and they wanted this animal to come out and be on display for the community. That began the process right there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=3695.0,3822.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Interviewer: What do you recall about Bill and Decie Jones, and Jones Ranch?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=3822.0,3830.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Charlie Walter: You know, Mr. Jones always had his puppy dog, went with him, and I remember him saying very clearly, she always walks ahead of me, and that's why she got bit by the rattlesnake last year. But she's okay now, and you know, she's my buddy. Just very gracious. Their farmhouse was a hundred years old. It was bought out of a Sears catalog back in the day and built there. Decie was always just gracious, and they just opened the doors. They just said, \"You know, let us know when you're coming out. We love having you here. We love the fact that these fossils are going to be excavated and put on display.\" Just very welcoming to the whole crew and what it was all about.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=3830.0,3870.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Interviewer: What were your thoughts when it was suggested this was a completely new species of dinosaur?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=3870.0,3878.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Charlie Walter: You know, we saw that time and time again, you know, the Tenontosaurus dossi was a new species, right? The Pawpawsaurus was a new species. We just saw that. And that's what was really cool about this heart of Texas dinosaurs. These were things that weren't in the literature, and that motivated us to really, you know, how do we tell the story now? So, I was always very excited to see those research papers coming out of SMU. And the agreement was that we supported the digs. We supported SMU and helped fund the...bringing the fossils out of the matrix. SMU did the research, published the papers, but then the fossils came over here, and then SMU helped us interpret them to the public. So, it was always a really, really great partnership, and it was not a surprise when they said, oh, it's a new species. Because I think at the time, Pleurocoelus was described by a fossil from Maryland. And I was like, okay, well, that's up there. Probably is something different about our species. But then they described it, and they were responsible for the name and they honored the Jones. So, it's Paluxysaurus jonesi. And, you know, so we were used to the fact that it was a new species. But then I don't remember how it exactly came up. But we'd been talking with Senator Mike Moncrief, who was a senator in town here, a state senator. And we said, we think this is so important. You know, could we make a resolution to have this be the Texas state dinosaur? He's like, “Well, yeah, we can do that.” So we we chatted with him about that. Uh, and he worked...Senator Moncrief worked it out for us. We went down to the Capitol. Uh, one of the, one of the more interesting things about it was they published that they were going to name the Texas state dinosaur. Well, there was apparently a young 12 year old boy who came in and said, no, no, it should be Dimetrodon. And how do you argue with a 12 year-old boy? Well, I turned to Aaron Pan at the time, the curator, I said, Aaron, you're going to have to break his heart and tell him Dimetrodon is not a dinosaur. So Aaron went down there and very graciously explained why this was, you know, this amazing large animal, which was a real dinosaur was the appropriate one. And while Dimetrodon is super cool, it's a prehistoric reptile. It's not a dinosaur. And so we should...we should honor that this is the state dinosaur. And then, you know, now that I work at Baylor, we hosted the American Museum of Natural History's exhibit, “The World's Largest Dinosaurs,” and they had a pin on the map. I was like, ah, here it is, there's Paluxysaurus. And I looked down and said, Sauroposeidon. I was, like, wait a minute, what's this all about? And at some point I saw Louis Jacobs, Dr. Jacobs, the guy said, what's this Sauroposeidon thing? He goes, oh yeah, somebody thinks it's this, but I think it's gonna come back and we'll prove it's really not Sauroposeidon. So, you know, that's science that comes and goes and you do your best research and put that out there and somebody else challenges that, that's that science, that challenge and back and forth. But it is fun to just still Google, I still Google Paluxysaurus jonesi. It comes out, Texas State dinosaur. And because it was the animal that made those huge trackways, those world-famous trackways at the Dinosaur Valley State Park, that are known globally, there's a trackway in Austin at the Memorial Museum, which has changed its name now to the Texas Museum of Natural History, and then up at the American Museum. Those trackways are both places and still on the site itself. It's just a... Between the trackway and the specimen, it really is a Texas story and a world story. So it's very appropriate that it's Paluxysaurus jonesi.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=3878.0,4094.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Interviewer: There are those with very strong opinions about the identification of this particular dinosaur. What are your thoughts?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=4094.0,4103.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Charlie Walter: Yeah, and it was Pleurocoelus before that, I mean, you know, so that, again, to me, that's a teachable moment, right? Well, why did that happen? Well, this scientist feels this, and again, all of these arguments are more technical than I'm used to, so I'll let the scientists decide, but I'm glad that we still call it Paluxysaurus jonesi, in honor of the Jones family and the Paluxy River that flows through Dinosaur Valley Park. So, I think we got it right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=4103.0,4129.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Interviewer: In your opinion, what was the biggest challenge to the excavation?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=4129.0,4138.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Charlie Walter: You know, I think it was about an eight or nine year or 10 year excavation. So, you know, it's just, it just kept going. And, but it wasn't really a challenge. It was kind of the joy of what we did. So I know Jim Diffily was the leader and Jim would work with SMU. And I think they plan like three weeks out of the year where they'd go out there and spend concentrated time digging three or four weeks out the year. So it was really more joy than challenge. And, and then, probably the biggest challenge, I know we got one bid to articulate Pleurocoelus and it was in the millions of dollars and we couldn't afford that. But then we worked with Rob Reid who'd done some other great work for us and because he's local and loves dinosaurs and all that, we were able to bring that down. So probably the biggest challenges was the funding to articulate. But the capital campaign that built this building, it was just a little piece of that projects and it worked out well. And, you know, part of it, too, is, you know, when we opened, it was in that small dinosaur space. And I'm really glad y'all moved it out now to be central, because it is. It's a central and very important specimen in the state of Texas. I don't know this for a fact, but I know a lot of museums have casts of dinosaurs. But I'm not sure they have Texas dinosaurs. I still think we have more Texas dinosaurs than any museum in the State. I could be wrong. But real fossils, I think that's important. One of the side stories in this, because dinosaurs are becoming more and more important, is because we had that wonderful relationship with Louis Jacobs, we're in a meeting one time just talking about an exhibit. You know he wrote the book, Lone Star Dinosaurs, and he approached us to build a small exhibit that could travel around the state with him as he did his book tours. And we did that, and we did it because that was the right thing to do with a partnership. And, because it was getting these dinosaurs or all new species, again, little fossils here and there, nothing articulated out and around the state. But one of those meetings we were talking about, this small exhibit that was gonna travel, and Louis said, you know, I just got a call from my friend in the Dinosaur Society, and they're working with Spielberg on this new movie called Jurassic Park. And so that relationship with doing real work, doing the real science with real scientists connected us to this bigger story. Where all of a sudden the Dinosaur Society was asked to consult on Jurassic Park and Louis's comment was they're going to donate the prop, movie props, to the American Museum of Natural History in New York. They're kind of a mothership for lots of paleontology and we were like well I wonder if they'll travel it? And Louis says I don't know and I said can you send me information on that. He faxed some handwritten notes and a couple handwritten sketches that's all there was. And I remember looking at those and the dinosaurs were so big they would not fit in our old temporary gallery with our little ceilings. And I remember walking into Don's office, Don Otto's office, just shaking my head, and Don looks up and goes, what? I said, “Spielberg is going to do dinosaurs, it's going to be called Jurassic Park, based on that Crichton book, and they're going to an exhibit, I don't think they've thought about traveling it yet.” And Don stood up right away, and we started walking around the museum. How can we get this here? How can we do it? Long story short, we were the first museum to sign. They hadn't thought about it traveling. So we were first museum to sign, but a lot of it was that integrity of working with the real scientists on real projects. And we're in a wonderful market. And, you know, our attendance was a lot larger back in the day. IMAX was still driving more and more people our way, but also exhibit base was growing. So we wore a great venue after New York to host Jurassic Park. So the ties on that, you know, doing the real science, those little things would pop up. Number one, you got to listen for it, but you know listen for knowing the potentials there. The other side benefit or another side story of that is when Colleen Blair walked into my office and said, “Charlie, I have an idea.” I said, “What?” She goes, “The Lone Star Dinosaur Field Institute.” I said, “Tell me about it.” She talked about how she had a vision of creating teachers and having them work in the field and then going to SMU and then coming to the museum and having it being educational. I just said, “How much do you think that would cost?” She goes, “I could probably do it for $5,000.” I said, “Okay, do it.” She goes, “You sure?” I go, “Yeah, yeah, we’ll do it...we'll find the money.” And one of the cool things about that is the teachers would come back together six months after the institute. And tell each other how they'd implemented what they learned. And it was like a learning community and they'd steal ideas from each other. But at one point where we were trying to raise the money for this building, we were in a meeting. Don Otto and I were in the meeting with Val Wilkie, who was head of the Sid Richardson Foundation at the time. I believe that's the right one. And he loves STEM education. And I said, I said I know we're here to talk about this capital project, but I know how much you really think about science education. Let me show you something. And I took him down to the room. And it was a room where the teachers were sharing their ideas from the summer and how they had implemented them. And they were wonderful ideas, and they were engaged and really talking positively. We walked back to the conference room, and Val Wilkie said, you know, I know we're here to talk about this building, but I also want the proposal for that. And we developed a proposal, and I think it was $60,000 or $80,000 came in for the fund the next three years of the Dinosaur Institute. And through that kind of funding, we sent teachers home with casts of dinosaur bones, or video tapes produced by Don Garland that were them in the field that they could show their kids that they're actually digging dinosaurs, and then just talking to the researchers. And probably more than anything, you got to sit with Louis Jacobs and Dale Winkler and Jim Diffily and found out that these are just real people. And they talk about their kids, and they talk issues, and yeah, they're world-class scientists as well. But it really broke down a lot of barriers of science. And I just saw that as so positive. So I think we did the Institute maybe six, seven, eight years until it really was this building project kind of washed over the museum like a tsunami and we had to stop a number of things to really focus on getting this building up and...up and done. But then again, yeah, the Paluxysaurus, the threads of what that did for us. And the other big part of that related, because it was real authentic work, we wrote a $1.2 million NSF grant. And NSF was like, oh yeah. And it wasn't just the exhibit, it was the exhibit along with the teacher institute, along with some other things, I can't remember everything we did with it. But we produced...we had to produce that exhibit in the old building because the new building didn't get built in the timing we thought it would. And we hosted ASTC or AAM or something. And people loved the exhibit, especially our colleagues and professionals, because it was very much about taking you through that whole process of discovering things in the field, going into a lab setting and doing hands-on activities to interpret what you saw on the field. And at the end, there was a computer where you could, you know, create a world of dinosaurs right here in Texas based on what you learned back there. And then you could send that to your house. A picture that you did. And then he walked around the corner and there were all the specimens there and all of the original, like Paluxysaurus jonesi. The first time we articulated it, it was literally on just a big wall, two-dimensionally, where we had it painted. I don't know who did the painting. Maybe...I don't think it was Karen Carr on that one, but then we just put the real fossils in the right place. It was just a big skeleton painting. So that was the first iteration of it as we were getting ready to raise funds for this building. So yeah, just the ideas that the authentic work we did, the relationships that we built with both landowners and scientific community at SMU. And those relationships are still great to this day. You know, I get SMU, they've come down to the Mayborn Museum at Baylor a couple of times to help me put some things down there and working on an exhibit with Thescelosaurs and Pliosaurs are gonna help with that as well. So these are great colleagues both because we work together and it was it was definitely a win-win for the museum and for the scientific community.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=4138.0,4653.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Interviewer: What is your favorite memory of working on the excavation project?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=4653.0,4662.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Charlie Walter: This is my favorite memory. [laughing] Literally, I was just having a slow day at the office, and I knew Jim and those guys were out camped, and I was like jealous of them being out there. So, I walked into Don Otto's office one morning and said, “Let's go to the dig site. They've been there all week. Let's just go see it and get out of the office.” And Don's like, okay, and we left. We drove down to the dig site, and we got there at lunch. And we show up and they're just breaking for lunch, and they look at us and go. Great, you guys show up for lunch. We're doing all the work, and you show up for lunch. Well, yeah, we're directors and assistant directors. That's what we do. So yeah, we had that kind of great relationship. So, we went and had lunch with them. We came back and they all...the crew started digging in one part of the quarry and Louis Jacobs and I were standing right there, and Don Otto and I said, “Louis, why isn't anybody digging over here?” And he goes, “Well, Charlie, you can dig here if you want.” And I literally looked down; there was a rock. And I looked down and I shook the rock, and I pulled the rock up and below it was a beautiful sheen, brown sheen of dinosaur bone. And I said, “Look, Louis, it's right there.” And he just shook his head and walked off. And within five minutes, everybody who'd been digging over there for four days, four and a half days hadn't found anything. They were here, and it ended up being a four- or five-foot humerus of this animal, really literally under this much sand. It was right there and it just was laid out perfectly. The bottom of it was in a matrix, but the top was just like it was laying in the sand. And they'd actually been driving an excavator over that to get over to some other area to remove some overburden. So whenever I come here with students from Baylor, and we walk by the specimen, I'm like, “See that bone right there? I found it.” So I am very proud of that. And it was fun. It was just fun. You couldn't have set it up any better. It's like, why isn't anybody digging here? Well, you can dig here. See? It's right there. So yeah, that's the joy of it. And of course, right, this work and the joy of discovery led to Dino Dig. And Dino Dig in the old building, 15 years after we opened it, students were in the hallway chanting, “Dino dig! Dino...” I tell people it's better than buried treasure. They're digging with their dinosaur bones. So we created Dino Dig and we salted it with fossils. And it's so fun to see a little kid having a little fossil that they took out of here that they discovered. And I had parents come up to me with buckets of fossils while I worked here. And they said, well, we found...my son found one, and he was so excited. We went to a ranch we know, and we collected all these fossils. We want to give them to you to bury them for other kids to find. And again, it's just that joy of authentic discovery. This is the reality of it. And you know Dino Dig still is probably one of the more creative things we did. And I give Colleen Blair and Kit Goolsby credit because we were doing some strategic planning and we sent teams out to different parts of the country of people we knew were doing good work to take...steal ideas and bring them back and talk about them. And when I say steal, the museum community is very caring and giving. It's not stealing, it's sharing. But they came back and there was a park in Columbus where they had a welded dinosaur skeleton. It was all metal. He was kind of a sauropod, he had a big smiley face, and this dump truck just come in piled sand on him. And the kid just spent all day uncovering it. And it was done in a very playground way, and we're like, what if we did it in an authentic way? And that's how Dino Dig came about. And every bone in there was a cast from the real specimen that was made out of some kind of heavy concrete that would, you know, for the most part, kids couldn't undo. And, you know, we created a stream that went through it and we put Tenontosaurus and the big Acrocanthosaurus out there. And that was just a wonderful project working with people of The Larson Company out of Tucson to make that happen. We had done some homework and found that they had done some dinosaur parks. We thought they'd be the best to work with. And they were. They were wonderful to work with. And the project manager on that was Dan Cole. So, Dan ultimately was hired by the Perot to come...to manage all their exhibits when they opened. So just, again, a good solid person, good work, and just a really good project.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=4662.0,4924.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Interviewer: What do you consider to be the legacy of this project?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=4924.0,4933.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Charlie Walter: Well, scientifically, it was important work. It starts there, right? This was real science, real work. And if you look at Louis Jacobs' book, Lone Star Dinosaurs, the middle chapter, “Heart of Texas Dinosaurs,” it's all about this work. So, we added a chapter, through that partnership, added a chapter to that scientific research. And then beyond that, it's the fact of what the museum stood for. The museum stood for uh, real science, interpreting that science with the community, but then creatively finding ways to do it with features and Lone Star Dinosaurs, and Dino Dig, and then we bring in Jurassic Park. So, we, we leveraged that authentic work, then found ways to engage different audiences, but it was all based on that real work. The integrity of it was really solid. And actually, when we hosted Jurassic Park, New York would not let any of their fossils travel. So, we found fossils from colleagues and museums across the country. I know there were some that came in from Utah. My favorite part was all the little fossil remnants that we put in. There were little pieces of what we had excavated here in Fort Worth and west. And then we asked Karen Carr to paint dinosaurs for us. She had never painted dinosaurs before. So, Karen painted all the dinosaurs, and those ended up in Louis's book along with others. And then we purchased that collection when the book was published, and Karen basically gave them to us at a very, very low price because she respected the science and the project and the partnership so much. And Karen's gone on to be an international artist and still a wonderful friend. So again, another spin-off story that comes right back to the work, the real work of it all. So, yeah, even though we didn't have PhD researchers on staff. We had interpreters like Jim Diffily and Bill Voss, who were men of science, people of science. But they respected the science enough to know, you know what, we need to find the right partner to do this the right way. And, you know, when it's authentic and it comes from your own passion, that's where all these things build from there. And I think that's why it was so successful. I think, that's why we received a large NSF grant. It was real science, real work, and it's easier to get kids excited about science when it was in their backyard. And this was literally in their backyard. And I remember, I can't remember exactly where we were. But, you know, whenever you get a big NSF grant, it's a happy day. And so, receiving that grant, again, was a stamp of approval that the science is important...educate...the way we're approaching it educationally is important, and this exhibit that's coming out is important. Now, we had to take the exhibit down when we built this building, and the space allocated in this building wasn't enough to do what we had done in the old building. So, it's just a little vignette here now, what we had then. But that's exhibits, right? Exhibits come and exhibits go. But I think the work we did and because of the NSF funding, you know, we were able to get Randy Korn involved to do a summative evaluation. I have that in your files. Just talking about how the exhibit connected with people. Because, you know again, we're talking back in 2005 maybe. The fact that we allowed people to do something here and then send it back to their own home via the internet. That was a big deal back then. It wasn't happening a lot. So, we had some cutting-edge technology. It was based on the real science, but it was very much about the process of scientific inquiry. It was, I'm in this spot. I see a lot of bones. How do I make sense of this? And I remember we had at least three interpretive strategies to connect visitors to that dig area. And it worked. They were engaged and then they took what they knew over to the lab area to interpret what they'd seen out in the dig area. Ultimately, they created a world of dinosaurs that was their belief based on everything they had done. So, and then, they walked around the corner and see the real thing. Like, oh, this isn't, this isn't make-up. This isn't make-believe. This isn’t science coming over from China. No, this is Parker County, Somerville County, Tarrant County. So, it really connected, I think, well for audiences.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=4933.0,5198.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Interviewer: What advice would you give someone interested in museum work or paleontology?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=5198.0,5207.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Charlie Walter: You know, people that have the passion for it find a way. That's the bottom line. People who have a passion for the science, they get involved with it, they may study it in college. You may end up having...your whole life, you may end being a volunteer, because you can't find a way to support your family through some of this stuff, and paleontology positions are feeling far between. But frankly, volunteer paleontologists make the biggest discovery...most of the discoveries, right? Dallas Paleontological Society does amazing work with the people who volunteer because they love it. I was literally talking with someone yesterday who had brought in some Native American artifacts and he's like, “Oh you know I don't know anything about this, but I just love it.” I said, “You're an informal educator you know you got that passion and you've got the spark and you got the enthusiasm and then just follow your spark, follow that and go.” So, yeah, you don't know if you'll be able to make a career out of it. I mean, my undergraduate work was in wildlife science. I thought I really wanted to be more in the science department, but then I decided, oh, I got to support my family. So, I got an MBA. I decided I needed to run the place one day and eventually I did. But I think the reason I've been relatively successful is I have a passion from the Wildlife Science/Museum Studies degree from A\u0026M that kind of, you know, that's the fuel that let's everything else go. So now I'm a director and I'm having to raise money, but I'm raising money for the best things, right? I'm, you know, raising money for education and exhibits. And you know literally to this day, just the creativity and the opportunity to put together an exhibition, and then you see how it connects with people, and when people are engaged and they're learning in there, it makes it all worthwhile.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=5207.0,5315.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Interviewer: In what ways has this project shaped how you approach your work?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=5315.0,5324.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Charlie Walter: I approach everything collaboratively, and I learned that through this project. When I went down and became director of the Mayborn Museum at Baylor...within a month, a month before I arrived, and the museum staff had been working on this for a while...a month before I arrive, the National Park Service said yes, they would make a national monument out of a research site, which is just like the Jones Ranch site, but this one happens to have mammoths down in Waco. Well, it started at the museum, we excavated it for years, but... But again, before my time, people reached out to the community, the community ended up putting a big shelter over it because it just seemed like such a great spot for education and research. And then eventually, because it was done at such a high-quality level, the National Park Service said, yeah, we can work with you on this. So, you know, being at Waco, now the Mayborn has been working that site for 40 years. The city got involved 15 year...well, 25 years after we started, the city got involved. And then five years after...no, 10 years after the city got involved with the National Park Service. And then there's also a private foundation now that helped raise money for the dig site. So, so still that collaborative work and working collaboratively is still that best model in my opinion, as opposed to the lone scientists who's out there doing their own thing. You know, then they come back and put it on a shelf and that's it. No, doing it as a group, bring it together, bending your strengths together. So really that's one of my number one lessons. And it goes back to Don Otto being a collaborative partner. Don got us involved with the Science Museum Exhibit Collaborative; the Exploratorium exhibit partnership was a Don Otto. I brought up the idea of the, uh, the Youth Museum Exhibit Collaborative is like, let's do it. And then the Pine Network came on board, Playful Invention Network. So, through collaboration, we've made partners all over the country, and we brought all that learning here to the museum. It really created just such a rich dynamic environment and really helped the museum learn and grow. And I think if you're constantly trying something new, bringing in a new partner to try something new. It just keeps the place really fresh and dynamic. And so, the collaborative nature of the dinosaur work, I think, followed through with lots of other things we did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=5324.0,5484.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Interviewer: During the project's span, did you have any interaction with Dr. Wann Langston?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=5484.0,9093.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Charlie Walter: You know, I never personally met him, but Jim Diffily came up and told me that he had met him, and Dr. Langston said the mammoth skull at Fort Worth Museum of Science and History was a spark that got him involved in paleontology. And I said, Jim, we need this story on videotape, and I know it's in the archives now, but just the idea that this young kid was walking around this skull when it was in the Carnegie Library before this museum was here...and I think it's still artifact number one came over here. So, this young boy is walking around that skull, and the librarian's like, kid, go do something, what are you doing here? He's like no, this is, where did this come from, how did you get it? And, you know, do you have any books on fossils? And they went, look, they did not have a book on the fossils and on fossils in the Fort Worth Public Library. But the librarian was wonderful enough to take him into the office, and they called a bookstore, and they found a book of fossils. So when Dr...when Wann Langston, the young boy, left, he talked to his parents about this, they went to that bookstore, bought him that book. So I know in our archives, there's a picture of him in front of that fossil, the mammoth skull, holding that book and so that was his spark and that's what led him in that way. And I think, you know, when you're... When there's so much science in front of you, you've got to prioritize. And I think they opened up that site and just took the stuff that was readily there. They really didn't excavate it very deeply. And from what was there, they found enough to do their research in publish papers and that was enough. But they were researchers, you know, then we come along and like, well, we're museum people, we want that specimen on display. We want as much of this as we can get. So again, that's the partnership coming on board that helped us really work together to excavate it in the right way, supervised by the paleontologists. And yeah, I was amazed when I heard that too, that had been discovered way back then, reopened again, but still. What, probably that animal has 20 to 30% real fossils there and there's more in the collection, I know. That was still, that was just sitting there, hadn't been fully excavated. So just, you know, just, I think it's a function of how much time and energy it takes and then what are other priorities. Well, when we saw it, we knew it was just such a huge opportunity and the community supported us, the foundation supported us through our teacher work. And we were able to just spend the time that took. Yeah, it sounds right. And, you know, again, the good thing is the integrity of the science of it is we fully respect everything they did at UT and what they're all about. And I know they helped inform our exhibit and our program and they...I wouldn't doubt Jim talked to Dr. Langston about the project itself. So that's a good Jim question. Because yeah, he did...he did meet Dr. Langston and it just tickled me to death when I heard that story again. You never know when a kid's gonna stand in front of Paluxysaurus and that's gonna be their spark to start them on that career path. And again, you can, you know, stick with it, follow it through or you know life turns you another way. You still have that passion. It doesn't mean you can't still go to museums. You can't volunteer at Dallas Paleo Society, people like that. You can always go out and toss one on your own, right? When I left here, I went to New Mexico, the New Mexico Museum of Natural History and Science. They were started by the state, so there was a state law created to create the museum and give it a mandate to preserve the natural history of New Mexico. That was awesome to have that mandate. But my paleontologist out there said, acre for acre, New Mexico has some of the richest dinosaur finds in the world. And so it was wonderful to step off from here and the experiences I had here, you know, led me right over to New Mexico where we were doing the same thing. And, you know I think I was involved with at least three fresh releases of new species where they would come in and talk about new species that we had found there. And we had an incredible group of volunteers that both were out in the field excavating but also volunteers in the fossil prep labs and doing stuff. You know, so there's lots of opportunities to plug into this type of work, even if you're not getting paid for it as a professional. And I think there are very few people who are paid for it as a profession. So, and even someone like Jim Diffily, right? Jim had tons of other things on his plate here at the museum. You know he gave lectures in museum school, or we're building other exhibits. We're building national traveling exhibits. And so, you know, it's just you fit it in the best you can. And he did a great job of prioritizing it and getting it organized. I think Jim was like the backbone that held that whole process together over that 10 or 20 years, and it was really wonderful because Jim had left the museum when it began to articulate it at Rob Reed's studio and Rob brought Jim on as a staff member to help make that happen. So Jim's probably one of the very few people who pulled it out of the ground, helped with research on it, and then got to articulate and put it back on display. That’s pretty...pretty few and far between, I’m sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=9093.0,9413.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Interviewer: Would you like to highlight anything about the importance of this project?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=9413.0,9421.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Charlie Walter: To me, one of the important aspects of the work we did back then was that a lot of it is still in your collection. So, when are you going to articulate Acrocanthosaurus? It needs to be articulated. There's no other Texas specimen, period. I think there's a cast from an Oklahoma specimen at the Perot and at the Witte, but this is the Texas specimen, and it deserves to be articulated and put on display. So, what else is in the collection? What other ways can we interpret it? There's been new science, you know. How do we address Sauroposeidon versus Paluxysaurus? You know, just that conversation is a great opportunity to teach people about science in general. So, I still think there's lots of ripples left from that work. It's interesting. I don't think since Paluxysaurus was excavated that any other dinosaurs have walked in the door. I mean, there was that 20-year renaissance that really was amazing, I'm really...feel proud and honored to be part of that, but there are still more dinosaurs out there, we know that. I was on a ranch west of Waco, and there's a dinosaur trackway, and the landowner's like, “I don't want it just to weather away,” and I'm like, “Oh, you know, would you consider donating it to the Mayborn Museum?” He's like, “Well, I'd consider that.” So, there's still opportunities out there for this type of work. And you know, the more that you and the museum can talk about the dinosaur work, projects like this, the more people will know that the museum has always been very serious about this and will do work in the right way. Then hopefully another kid will walk in the door one day with a little fossil they found, and somebody will say that looks pretty good. Let's call our colleagues at SMU again and get them over here. And so maybe there's, that would be my hope, that there's more dinosaurs in your future. And I think that's important to keep the museum alive and breathing and growing, because you're doing authentic science, and you're bringing it here then to educate people around that science. And it's a thrill of discovery. It's awe-inspiring when you see it out there in the rotunda and those... You know, it really keeps the museum genuine, real, alive. You know you're doing the real work of science. And again, you don't have to have all the scientists on staff. It's through those partnerships that can keep that moving in the right direction. So that's what my hope is that you guys have another dinosaur that walks in the door, and then you can begin that work, collaborative work again because it does just build community momentum around what you do, and excitement around what you do because it is exciting. I think if you had a... I know the real number, right? You have ten kids, five boys and five girls. You say you want to dig up dinosaur bones or buried treasure? My bias says eight out of the ten would say dinosaur bones. That's just why I feel about it. And that's why I think this work’s very exciting. This says claws and teeth. It's wonderful and it was big. Well, that's the other cool part, right? Some of these things weren't big. The little Pawpawsaurus skeleton you'll have, and those little Hypsilophodons. That's another whole layer of the stories. So anyway, you know, Fort Worth Museum of Science and History has important chapters in the text of the dinosaur story. And I think those chapters are every bit as important as what Dr. Langston did down in Austin. And I hope as y'all grow and move into the future, you're able to tell those stories in bigger, better ways here at the museum. You know, to keep the stories in front of people, but also just to give the stories the time and space they deserve. As I know, again, when you open a big museum like this, you're trying to juggle 12 balls in the air at one time, and you do your best, but then okay...then you follow up and say, okay, what's next? And I think just moving the Paluxysaurus front and center the way you did, that's huge. And that's, you know showing it as an icon of what we do and what we've done here in the past. More things like that would be wonderful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=9421.0,9688.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Interviewer: These interviews continue to add to the known history of Paluxysaurus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=9688.0,9696.0"},{"id":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657/transcript/92294/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Charlie Walter: Yeah, it just brings it to life, right? You're like, oh, wow, I didn't know that. Yeah, I mean, just coming here, I pulled up some old files. I found the old files from the Rob Reed Studio. I found a file that one of our staff did, just photos of the interim exhibit that was on site before the old building got torn down. So, there's photos of that, and I'm sure there's great photos here as well. But yeah, yeah, just...it's part of who we are, it's part of the history of this place. And a lot of museums don't have that kind of real authentic history I mean. And to really have those relationships with the landowners we had, with the scientific community at SMU, and beyond, because, I mean scientists came down from Oklahoma, I think Denver Museum came down. You know, people knew this was real work, and that was the great thing about working with the National Science Foundation, right? They funded national-level projects. So, to make it a national-level project, you have experts who have passion for the work. And so, I think it was Dr. Richard Stuckey, Jim Diffily and other real names from Denver. He came down, somebody came down from Oklahoma. Of course, Louis Jacobs and Dale Winkler. So just having these people sit around the table, they were excited about it. This is legit, real work. And then we had, because of the NSF funding, we had people like Judy Rand and Randy Korn. And if you look at museum literature, they're... Uh professionals in the field. They came down to be part of the project because it was such a...such important project but again because we got it funded in the right way we're able to put it together in that right way so um...so that that was, you know I really feel good about the way we approached it. We also worked with a group called Hands On Inc. out of St. Petersburg. They did a wonderful job helping us think through how to approach this and did all the design work and actually did most of the fabrication work of what we built here. And so again, bringing on a national group that did stellar work just, you know, it was all about the quality of what we were doing. You know, we pulled together the best people in the country to get it done. And that's, and that was the plan all along, right? And that's one of the reasons NSF funded it, because it was a national level project, telling a local story, but the implications were national. Educationally, it would be significant, but the science was real science, and science was significant, because of the players we brought around the table. NSF said, yeah, this is worthy of national support. We were fortunate, over about a 15-year period, I think we brought in...it was over $8 million from the National Science Foundation, but it was because of the real work we were doing, both from the standpoint of science, but also education. We were really connected to great partnerships through Don Otto. We nurtured those partnerships because we knew we had a lot to learn. I think that's why we were always a good partner, because we never stepped into a partnership saying, you know, you're lucky to have us as a partner. No. We always felt lucky to be a partner. And just would bring all that learning back into the building here. And then literally, I mean, when we got our first national grant, it was the biggest federal grant, probably the only first federal grant we ever got. And it was a matter of, okay, we're funded on a national level. What are the national dialogs that are out there? Now, we need to be aware of those, because if we want national funding, we need be aware what's going on nationally and how we can support those national initiatives and ideas. So, we shifted our thinking through all of this work, partnered with some of the biggest museums in the country. And then again, we were able to bring all of that talent back to Fort Worth. It's the idea from a management standpoint, we call it what's called a network organization. That's what it's called. It's like you have partners all across the country, and it becomes your job to also help them be successful. That's why it's a successful network, but then they help you be successful, so the credit doesn't go under this one roof. It's under SMU's roof; it's under the other museum colleagues that came in to help us. This Hands On Inc. out of St. Petersburg came in. So, all those things were important, and that's what elevated us as professionals and elevated our work area. The museum was known across the country for that level of work, and the dinosaurs were always a big part of that.\r\n\r\nTRANSCRIPTION ENDS","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortworthmuseumofscienceandhistory.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3545/collection_resources/167482/file/304657#t=9696.0,2802.0"}]}]}]}